Seattle Times: Seattle refuses to salt roads

[scarlettina]

..."plowed streets" in Seattle actually means "snow-packed," as in there's snow and ice left on major arterials by design.

Apparently, one of the reasons this spate of severe weather in Seattle is so debilitating is that the city has decided that it's environmentally unsound to use salt to melt ice. The city's plows have been equipped with only marginally effective equipment. And it's all on purpose. Read the Seattle Times report.

Maybe I'm a bad environmentalist, but I'll take the rap. I don't think these choices are good for the city or its residents. Those of us without four-wheel drive or chains (go ahead, try to find chains at this point--if you can get to stores, that is) are stuck without recourse, especially when bus service is limited (like yesterday, when every bus closer than a 20 minute walk away was taken out of service and none of the sidewalks have been shoveled--except by me; I've been clearing our sidewalks for days now. It's been my main form of exercise.).

Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch, I know. I just think this endangers residents (on the news last night, it was reported that traffic accidents the last two weeks have increased specifically in relation to the weather and road conditions), limits commerce (economy? what economy?), and frustrates everyone (merry freakin' holidays, yo).

And then there's the forecast: More snow, then rain, to be followed by possible urban flooding.

I understand why these choices are being made. But it's times like this that I long for New York.

Comments

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

the city has decided that it's environmentally unsound to use salt to melt ice.

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure people being injured by slick, slippery ice is environmentally unsound too.

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Sing it, sister. My ankles and knees still hurt from slipping and sliding all over the sidewalks yesterday. I loved getting out, breathing fresh air, getting exercise and interacting with people face to face, but I gotta say: the physical price was pretty high.

[ckd]

They should be using beet juice.

(Also, "salt is bad for Puget Sound"? WTF do they think is in the water in the first place?)

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Well, there's a difference between natural salination levels and those increased by additives. Like I said, I understand the reasoning, but it makes me nuts.

[exiledfromtribe.livejournal.com]

There certainly needs to be some dicussion about this once Snowpocalypse is over. Perhaps we can break down and use salt every...oh, 5-10 years? Also, maybe we can shop for better equipment? I understand that we might have the best "infrequent snow" equipment that there is, but maybe we don't?

[anaka.livejournal.com]

Well, it is environmentally unsound. It's just that if they aren't going to do that, then they really freaking out to be using something else. I was reading a story a few days ago that someone's experimenting with a mixture of salt, cheese whey, and molasses that seems to both owrk well and keep the worst of the environmental impact to a minimum.

[kradical.livejournal.com]

Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. *boggle*

I'm reminded that the infamous exploding whale incident (http://www.snopes.com/critters/disposal/whale.asp) also occurred in the Pacific Northwest.

Maybe there's something in the water.


But it's times like this that I long for New York.

Indeedy-hoo-hah. Yeesh.

[lagilman]

Y'know, there are alternatives to road salt for snowy conditions. What do they think are used out here in watershed areas?

Sheeeeesh.

The trick to sidewalk clearing is to leave just enough snow underfoot so that when the ice forms it makes for a crunchy surface you can get traction on, not slippery black or clear ice. But what works for pedestrians, not so good for drivers without a snow-driven clue....

[djonn]

Portland doesn't believe in salt either. It is thus looking more and more likely that despite being only five or six miles apart, my parents and I won't be spending Christmas together this year.

Our bus system has also announced reduced service coverage, as of yesterday, presumably for the duration of the Snowpocalypse. This is not quite as disastrous for nondrivers as it probably is in Seattle, because the light rail system is still mostly up and running and the bus coverage overall is, I think, denser than it is Up There. But it's definitely going to further limit folks' ability to get around, and that's not helping right now....

Part of the trouble, of course, is that neither Portland nor Seattle has the hardware infrastructure to cope with this much snow and ice hanging around for this long -- for the entirely reasonable reason that we don't generally need that level of equipment or supplies more than once every couple of decades. But we're reaching the point when we definitely need some resources from somewhere to cope with the present situation -- and I wish the media were spending a little more time on that subject than on endless "the roads are mostly still a mess, and here are pictures of people out sledding and building snowmen" coverage.

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

The other awful thing about salt is that it destroys cars, metal buildings, and anything else it touches. One of the things I love about the Northwest is the variety and number of antique vehicles still on the road. Once dissolved by salt, they're no longer worth maintaining.

Here in the Midwest, I don't put anything that isn't a beater near the roads during the salt months.

Why Seattle doesn't use that "green salt" after plowing is surprising to me, though. It costs more than regular salt, so maybe that's what they mean: "We don't want to spend more on environmentally safe stuff, so we won't use anything." That's dumb. They should at least put down sand. Sand + some kind of melt is better than nothing.

PS: The trick to shoveling is to put down that "green salt" after clearing off the snow. Keeps ice from forming. Regular salt works, too, but damages the grass and plants near the walkways.

[shellyinseattle.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, Chris. Reading the article, while they SAY it's an environmental issue, it really sounds like a money issue. Otherwise, they wouldn't use the cheapest choice--sand.

[sara-ramirez-1.livejournal.com]

PDX is going through the same crap i think ppl are really pissed becuase of the same public transport issues!!I keep trying to call les schwab for chains cuase another storm is coming in and we are so stuck right now!!

[garyomaha.livejournal.com]

I wish I could say something helpful. Your winter suddenly resembles ours. The difference, of course, is that we get this All The Time so cities out here are (more or less) set up to take care of it. Plus, of course, in Nebraska, who cares if salt destroys anything? Full speed ahead!

I'm envisioning some sort of huge caravan -- it would work by train, by golly! -- where snowmoving equipment and operators are shuttled around to where they are needed. Problem is, right now they seem to be needed **everywhere**.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I gather the streets aren't even sanded, then? I can understand the decision on salt, but if I went that way I'd at least lay down sand to improve traction and try to abate the inevitable surge in destruction of property, injuries, and deaths that come with slick streets and sidewalks.

Maybe I'm just too used to living in a place that does a decent, if not superhuman, job of clearing the snow and ice from thoroughfares.

[prettyshrub.livejournal.com]

They aren't using enough sand. :(

Here is what wikipedia says:

De-icing of roads has traditionally been done with salt, spread by snowplows or dump trucks designed to spread it, along with sand and gravel, on slick roads. Sodium chloride (rock salt) is normally used, as it is inexpensive and readily available in large quantities. However, since salt water still freezes at -18°C or 0°F, it is of no help when the temperature falls below this point. It also has a strong tendency to cause corrosion, rusting the steel used in most vehicles and the rebar in concrete bridges. More recent snowmelters use other salts, such as calcium chloride and magnesium chloride, which not only depress the freezing point of water to a much lower temperature, but also produce an exothermic reaction. They are somewhat safer for concrete sidewalks, but excess should still be removed.
More recently, organic compounds have been developed that reduce the environmental issues connected with salts and have longer residual effects when spread on roadways, usually in conjunction with salt brines or solids. These compounds are generated as byproducts of agricultural operations such as sugar beet refining or the distillation process that produces ethanol.[2]
Since the 1990s, use of liquid chemical melters has been increasing, sprayed on roads by nozzles instead of a spinning spreader. Liquid melters are more effective at preventing the ice from bonding to the surface than melting through existing ice.
In Nagano, Japan, relatively inexpensive hot water bubbles up through holes in the pavement to melt snow, though this solution is only practical within a city or town. Some individual buildings may melt snow and ice with electric heating elements buried in the pavement, or even on a roof to prevent ice dams under the shingles, or to keep massive chunks of snow and dangerous icicles from collapsing on anyone below. Small areas of pavement can be kept ice-free by circulating heated liquids in embedded piping systems.

Here is a link to various deicing technology:

http://betterroads.gcnpublishing.com/content/Issue-Story.45.0.html?&no_cache=1&tx_magissue_pi1[keyword]=deice&tx_magissue_pi1[pointer]=0&tx_magissue_pi1[mode]=1&tx_magissue_pi1[showUid]=912